|
Post by ian on Feb 27, 2008 7:55:26 GMT
I’m going to get slaughtered for this, but it’s my opinion and I stand by it. I’m totally against the anti-Pook/Bloor stuff going on at the moment. I do not agree with the banning of Kevin but to be fair, we also do not know the full story. If it is for merely criticising the management then that is appalling. I do not agree with the decision to release Danny Davis and it would be nice, occasionally, for those in charge to hold their hands up when we lose and say “we messed up there”. I do not rate Danny Bloor as a football manager based entirely on his track record and not him as a person. I also do not believe Alan Pook is an angel, but I do have time for him. However, let’s look at this season 1. We can still sneak the play offs 2. We have more commercial revenue coming in than ever before 3. We still have an enviable youth set up 4. We have a reserve team for the first time for nearly 10 years 5. We have had progression off the pitch OK, now let’s look at things IF certain people get what they wish for. 1. Alan and Danny go, taking all their contacts and money with them 2. Youth team set up also go to Pook’s next club 3. Commercial guy walks 4. The club will revert to a loss making company and debt will accrue 5. Remember Barry’s final season with us? At best, that’s the sort of team we’ll have to put out 6. Who will RUN the club? I mean physically run it. Fans club/Community club – lovely idea but you can’t take goodwill to the bank and how many people will say they will help out and how many actually will? 7. Which manager in their right mind would want to come to WFC? What would be attractive to the players? It wouldn’t be money. Again, it is wonderful to think that 11 Worthing based players would play for peanuts and fire us to promotion but this is real life not Roy of the Rovers 8. I’m fairly certain that within the short to medium term that would be it for WFC Now, I’m not saying that Alan and co are perfect, nor am I kissing their rears here. IF someone can assemble a replacement board of directors that can pay off existing debt, inject further cash, run the club, bring in an experienced manager with enough contacts to find 16 Ryman Premier quality players and deliver a budget of around £2,000 pw then that is an entirely different matter. However, no-one is REALLY thinking about the consequences of them walking here and the serious implications if they do. I for one, love coming to WFC, enjoy meeting up with my mates and watching decent football. I want to continue to do that for many years to come and for my children to be able to do the same. We’ve won 3 in 3 and are just a few points off the play-offs. For those calling for big changes in the boardroom, please provide me with a solution first before I give your calls any credence. I can guarantee that you haven’t thought any of it through properly. I will try and answer any questions you may have in a thoughtful way. Everyone else is entitled to their point of view as much as me and of course, there is no guarantee that I am right but as I keep telling my wife, I usually am *CUEABUSE* PS – I still want Kev to be brought back
|
|
|
Post by KapitänHöhlenmensch on Feb 27, 2008 8:29:20 GMT
You just knew I'd be the first to bite mate Look at where they've taken us in the past three years. Backwards. Last year was an embarrasing shower of shite and the blame for that lays squarely on Bloor's shoulders. We get vilified, abused and banned by the powers that be. In the programme, press, pitchside, whatever, we're slaughtered. FACT. We're treated like rabble who can go to hell. Last season remember when Danny chased us to big it up after beating Lewes? We might've had a small budget but not as small as some, so there's no excuse for relegation from the Premier. We then get gobbed off at how we'll 99.9% go up. I don't see that. Do you? Why are so many players disenfranchised with PookBloor? It can't just be bad luck. They're terrible man managers, look at what happened to Davis, Day Luts. ok, the last two aren't great footballers but when we aren't even filling the bench, it's better to have bodies, and Day and Luts were cheap as well, you'd imagine. There are NO boardroom overhauls and changes. We get fobbed off, lied to and pissed around, we're a mere inconvenience to them it seems. They're running a fantasy football team and we're the guinea pigs. Regarding a buyout....who'd buy them out? I'm afraid we simply haven't been upto the playoffs with the squad we have. Skinner will go, as will Hughes. Andrews is missing two HUGE games with Dulwich and K's and lets not kid ourselves. Molesey are a County 2 side and Walton Casuals aren't much better. We hardly spanked either out of sight. I agree, off the pitch things are great. Youth team is great and well done for setting that up, it was much needed. It would be nice to see more Worthing lads though, not Dorothy Stringer old boys. More Dodds and Phillips' coming through. Assuming we can't get Pookbloor out, what I will suggest is get Danny Bloor out. He might pay to manage us, but is he benefitting us pitchside with his 'red ball' and ref abuse? No. Get in a coach/manager like Jamie Howell to run things and shunt Alan upstairs as Director of Football (replacing Mark Stevens who has done what in that role?) Get disciplined at training. It seems training is voluntary, why? They're semi pro footballers, not park players. There seems to be NO discipline at training, which echos to match days. Sort that out. You say which manager would come? What players will come now? Word gets round how Davis, Luts, Day, Shaz etc have been treated and no bugger would come within a mile of us. As for sneaking the play offs? Look what division we're in. It's pisspoor at best. There are 8 or so decent sides and the rest are County level. We gave away a third of our season without a win and were diabolical in most those matches. Injuries/suspensions, every side has them, we're no different. Other sides have contingencies, we have complaints. Rant over and off to listen to BBC Radio Norfolk, dreaming of A.P. (Alan Partridge!)
|
|
|
Post by ian on Feb 27, 2008 9:18:03 GMT
You just knew I'd be the first to bite mate Look at where they've taken us in the past three years. Backwards. Last year was an embarrasing shower of shite and the blame for that lays squarely on Bloor's shoulders. Yes, but in fairness, only this season has Alan had a proper picture of what is going on off the field. We get vilified, abused and banned by the powers that be. In the programme, press, pitchside, whatever, we're slaughtered. FACT. We're treated like rabble who can go to hell. A bit melodramatic there. I know Danny doesn't hold us in particularly high esteem but the feeling is mutual. You're not going to be buddy-buddy with people screaming for your head. And just imagine being a Premiership fan where fans are treated with such utter contempt that they want to play games ABROAD. We then get gobbed off at how we'll 99.9% go up. I don't see that. Do you? There's still a chance. Two points off the play offs with lots of points still to play for. Improbable, yes. Impossible, no. And what would you made of it if they'd said "our target is 12th and we have little chance of going up" Why are so many players disenfranchised with PookBloor? It can't just be bad luck. They're terrible man managers, look at what happened to Davis, Day Luts. ok, the last two aren't great footballers but when we aren't even filling the bench, it's better to have bodies, and Day and Luts were cheap as well, you'd imagine. But how many actually are? Who likes their boss at work? Players are forever moaning about things, it's part of the game. They all want to play and when they're not, they are disappointed. And if your as old as Andy or Leo, you're going to want to play regularly not warm a bench. There are NO boardroom overhauls and changes. We get fobbed off, lied to and pissed around, we're a mere inconvenience to them it seems. They're running a fantasy football team and we're the guinea pigs.. Isn't there? Regarding a buyout....who'd buy them out? That's the very point I'm making! I'm afraid we simply haven't been upto the playoffs with the squad we have. Skinner will go, as will Hughes. All conjecture lets not kid ourselves. Molesey are a County 2 side and Walton Casuals aren't much better. We hardly spanked either out of sight.. But we won both. It's insulting to think we're going to rack up 6 goal scorelines against these "inferior" sides I agree, off the pitch things are great. Youth team is great and well done for setting that up, it was much needed. It would be nice to see more Worthing lads though, not Dorothy Stringer old boys. More Dodds and Phillips' coming through. The town of Worthing does not produce footballers. The county of Sussex does not produce many footballers FACT. Assuming we can't get Pookbloor out, what I will suggest is get Danny Bloor out. He might pay to manage us, but is he benefitting us pitchside with his 'red ball' and ref abuse? No. He won't go and there is no point. We all know Alan runs the show and Danny is the patsy that takes all the stick when things go wrong. Get in a coach/manager like Jamie Howell to run things and shunt Alan upstairs as Director of Football (replacing Mark Stevens who has done what in that role?) May well happen eventually but we have to play with the cards we are dealt with. The £100 (?) we might pay a manager per week is £100 less for players. Alan and Danny pay to do this unlike Steve King at Lewes who is PAID to do it. Get disciplined at training. It seems training is voluntary, why? They're semi pro footballers, not park players. There seems to be NO discipline at training, which echos to match days. Sort that out. This is inexcusable and needs dealing with if true. You say which manager would come? What players will come now? Word gets round how Davis, Luts, Day, Shaz etc have been treated and no bugger would come within a mile of us.. They'll follow the money like they always do. You'll get the odd one-off such as Lutters but that's football nowadays I'm afraid. As for sneaking the play offs? Look what division we're in. It's pisspoor at best. There are 8 or so decent sides and the rest are County level. We gave away a third of our season without a win and were diabolical in most those matches. Injuries/suspensions, every side has them, we're no different. Other sides have contingencies, we have complaints... You can only beat what is in front of you. We ARE one of those eight decent sides as we are occupying one of those positions. This is a FACT, even allowing for the fact we went on holiday from December to February. I appreciate that I am turning into Peter Foster here but I feel that we would be no better off without the current incumbents and until the play offs are mathematically impossible then I'm not going to give up and I doubt the players are either. COME ON YOU REBELS
|
|
|
Post by thehonestman on Feb 27, 2008 10:08:42 GMT
Being only a part time supporter of the club I cant really argue with any of the five positives that you list. Clearly from what you say many aspects of the club are progressing which is great to hear. As fans we should acknowledge the progress being made.
What surprises me is that your list of positives does not mention anything about the clubs supporters / fan base. For example are crowd numbers increasing, are supporter representatives actively involved in decision making, are open forum meetings held with management / officials, do the club communicate with fans effectively? All signs I am sure you would agree of a progressive football club. It what happens at several semi pro clubs locally so would you not expect to see it at Worthing?
I was very disappointed with the size of the crowd last night. With no footy on the telly or at Withdean to tempt people away, why is a Tuesday night crowd, for a team two points of the play offs, so low? Talking to people last night who have been going to Woodside for longer than the twenty years I have been attending, several seem to be so apathetic about the club, particularly the relationship between the board and the fans. This in my view is a very bad state of affairs. I wonder if the club is really interested in the fans views and opinions?
Would you agree that the club can not afford to continue to upset / turn of, a proportion of its already fairly low supporter base? Should it not think much harder about the effects of officials comments (in the match programme / football press) on loyal followers of the team? If a club official bans a number of well known regular attendees should he not communicate to the rest of us the reasons for his decision?
I think it is one of the most important roles of the Board of a football club to increase the supporter base and to try and keep it happy. I don’t see any progressive signs in this respect. It is a shame that your list of positives could not be expanded to include any reference to the clubs fan base. When the current board leave us (and they will) it is those loyal / active fans who are still around that will keep the club going.
|
|
|
Post by KapitänHöhlenmensch on Feb 27, 2008 10:32:32 GMT
Can't do this multiple quote lark Peter, so if it's a bit scrappy, I apologise but....
"Yes, but in fairness, only this season has Alan had a proper picture of what is going on off the field."
If things were dodgy, which has been hinted with VAT, PAYE, tax etc in several media sources, why haven't we had legal action? If someone did me out of a load of tax money, I'd sue them. Why aren't they? Why are we supporters left to pick up the pieces of a collective balls up? Not linking Pook to this balls up, but why are we liable for others' ineptitude?
"A bit melodramatic there. I know Danny doesn't hold us in particularly high esteem but the feeling is mutual. You're not going to be buddy-buddy with people screaming for your head. And just imagine being a Premiership fan where fans are treated with such utter contempt that they want to play games ABROAD."
And Danny's not a Prem manager so he can stop comparing himself to Fergie and Mourinho. Winners, not binners. We have perenially underachieved. Christmas feels like Domesday, the way we flounder every year at this time and we've had three years of this, so no wonder we're annoyed, and when we voice this, we get slagged off. Remember when we were top of the Prem? The same side that tanked Fisher and W'stone went and embarrased themselves to W&E and Maldon Town, when Bloor alone was in charge. This shows what he achieves. Nothing.
"There's still a chance. Two points off the play offs with lots of points still to play for. Improbable, yes. Impossible, no. And what would you made of it if they'd said "our target is 12th and we have little chance of going up"
And I'd LOVE US to make and win the play offs. I'd love it, for the players who have stuck around, the Akehursts, Banks etc etc, for us and what we've put up with. For recompense for the unmitigating disaster that was last season.
"But how many actually are? Who likes their boss at work? Players are forever moaning about things, it's part of the game. They all want to play and when they're not, they are disappointed. And if your as old as Andy or Leo, you're going to want to play regularly not warm a bench."
Pook is a bit of a 'Marmite of Sussex football'. You either love him or hate him. We've all heard players, managers slag him off til the cows come home. Andy said he'd be ok with the ressies. He was told not to bother, what does that say about the man management at the club?
"Isn't there?"
We'll see I guess.
"But we won both. It's insulting to think we're going to rack up 6 goal scorelines against these "inferior" sides" Yes, but there were 'brown trousers' moments in both games. Quite a few .It sums up what a crap/odd league this is when YM won at Sittingbourne last night too. There are a lot of funny results in this league. That's why we can 'afford' to have a three month holiday and still lurk in the play offs. If we took stock and got a grip sooner we'd have more points and be firmly wedged in the play offs, not in the pack of four chasing one spot which it looks like being.
"The town of Worthing does not produce footballers. The county of Sussex does not produce many footballers FACT."
That's something that sport in general in Sussex must address then.
"He won't go and there is no point. We all know Alan runs the show and Danny is the patsy that takes all the stick when things go wrong."
But what does he ADD to the club? Except embarrasments like last year at Leatherhead.
We all want the club to do well, otherwise we wouldn't keep coming, we all love The Rebels and want the play offs this year, and the success that accompanies it, hopefully, as your old man said, we all support the players, but I can't help but feel we're being taken for a ride by those in charge.
|
|
|
Post by jim on Feb 27, 2008 10:48:59 GMT
I for one, love coming to WFC, enjoy meeting up with my mates and watching decent football. I want to continue to do that for many years to come and for my children to be able to do the same. Ditto. Now just shake hands...
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 27, 2008 13:11:23 GMT
Heck Nick, even an old computer illiterate like me can do multiple quotes. ;D I don't want to fall out with you but I have a horrible feeling that the current regime may be the least bad option currently available. If they walked, we would be deep in the mire IMHO. The idea of a fans club is very nice in theory but in practice it will require one hell of a lot of organising and goodwill and somewhere we would have to secure the initial funding. Even 100 supporters putting in a £100 each only gives 10 grand which won't go far. If things were dodgy, which has been hinted with VAT, PAYE, tax etc in several media sources, why haven't we had legal action? If someone did me out of a load of tax money, I'd sue them. Why aren't they? Why are we supporters left to pick up the pieces of a collective balls up? Not linking Pook to this balls up, but why are we liable for others' ineptitude? You may not like it but it's the way of the world and business. What do you gain by suing, even if you could prove some sort of misdeed - the ones you may be after will simply declare themselves bankrupt or avoid having any money. Either way, collecting money would be very difficult and expensive. You just have to right it off And Danny's not a Prem manager so he can stop comparing himself to Fergie and Mourinho. Winners, not binners. We have perenially underachieved. Christmas feels like Domesday, the way we flounder every year at this time and we've had three years of this, so no wonder we're annoyed, and when we voice this, we get slagged off. Remember when we were top of the Prem? The same side that tanked Fisher and W'stone went and embarrased themselves to W&E and Maldon Town, when Bloor alone was in charge. This shows what he achieves. Nothing. Too personal - we are where we are. And I'd LOVE US to make and win the play offs. I'd love it, for the players who have stuck around, the Akehursts, Banks etc etc, for us and what we've put up with. For recompense for the unmitigating disaster that was last season. Like it or not, we do still have a football club, you can't roll back the years, last season is history, get over it Yes, but there were 'brown trousers' moments in both games. Quite a few .It sums up what a crap/odd league this is when YM won at Sittingbourne last night too. There are a lot of funny results in this league. That's why we can 'afford' to have a three month holiday and still lurk in the play offs. If we took stock and got a grip sooner we'd have more points and be firmly wedged in the play offs, not in the pack of four chasing one spot which it looks like being. Maybe you're right - nobody has said the management is perfect and just blaming injuries and suspensions (whose fault is that ) doesn't wash. Hopefully we have got it right now, yes it took too long but with a settled side and a tried and tested formation it is beginning to look better. We certainly shouldn't expect teams to come here and wait to be rolled over - they have their pride to play for too. But what does he ADD to the club? Except embarrasments like last year at Leatherhead. Get real - do you seriously think that the money we take at the gate and through sponsorship is meeting the running costs of this football club? We all want the club to do well, otherwise we wouldn't keep coming, we all love The Rebels and want the play offs this year, and the success that accompanies it, hopefully, as your old man said, we all support the players, but I can't help but feel we're being taken for a ride by those in charge. We do at least agree on that. BUT taken for a ride? How? What has changed - I don't really remember these halcyon days that lurk in your memory. Taken for granted maybe and some improved communication would go down pretty well with me.
|
|
|
Post by KapitänHöhlenmensch on Feb 27, 2008 13:26:06 GMT
I agree, and wouldn't want to fall out with anyone, as it's all about opinions and such. No point in falling out over football of all things.
I have to accept that they are the least bad option, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with it. Look at Brown/Cameron for the answer to that! It's better them than no football club at all, agreed, I'd never want to see an end to WFC, as none of us would. I've never suggested an end to WFC and would be heartbroken and devastated if that were to be.
We are too small to be a fans club. We get 300 a week, or did, anyway, and financially that won't get us anywhere as there's no 'moneyman' funding us. A shame, but that's life.
We are where we are, but last season seems easily forgotten and the revolving door policy is getting a bit much. The thing I am uncomfortable with is the fact that we've the board managing the club and the mixture is a poor one as there's a lack of accountability upon potential failure. At least an independent management has someone to answer to. There's no check and balance really is there?
Pook and Bloor have been managing for years and if they're worth their salt they know a settled side is the key to success. Why haven't we seen this (and why is Pullers left out so often? Answers on a postcard).
Yes, Danny invests, I accept that and thank him for it, but it doesnt' mean he'll be a success in the dugout. I'm afraid he isn't a success there. We'd all love him to be but he hasn't been.
Taken for a ride as in the fact that if we state disapproval, we're slagged off. Fans have been drven away. About 100 of them this season. It's a great shame as I'd like to think, whoever is playing, managing, whatever, we are all Worthing FC fans and we support the team together. People have been so angered by events they've joined this board just to state their distain over the management. That's a sign something isn't quite right.
Another thing we'll all agree on.... UP THE REBELS!
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 27, 2008 14:14:57 GMT
I don't want to appear to be an apologist for the Pook/Bloor set so sorry if it comes over so. We are where we are, but last season seems easily forgotten and the revolving door policy is getting a bit much. The thing I am uncomfortable with is the fact that we've the board managing the club and the mixture is a poor one as there's a lack of accountability upon potential failure. At least an independent management has someone to answer to. There's no check and balance really is there? You can't change history but you should learn from it. It looks as if we may finally be beginning to learn from the mistakes of the last 2 seasons. The point about accountability is a good one and it should remain a real concern. I hope that if Pook/Bloor do get things sorted, they may take something of a back seat and get in a manager - maybe like Barry Lloyd the first time when he was general/team manager Taken for a ride as in the fact that if we state disapproval, we're slagged off. Fans have been drven away. About 100 of them this season. It's a great shame as I'd like to think, whoever is playing, managing, whatever, we are all Worthing FC fans and we support the team together. Another very real concern - but if we start playing good winning football, you just might find that they start trickling back. People can be very fickle. People have been so angered by events they've joined this board just to state their distain over the management. That's a sign something isn't quite right. Yes, it is a sign that the club are not communicating effectively. But have these people tried talking with Pook after a game? He is usually pretty approachable, although probably less so if you choose to be abusive
|
|
|
Post by Herr Wurst on Feb 27, 2008 14:16:43 GMT
Ian makes some valid points and I can see where captain Caveman is coming from with some points he raises....Me sit on the fence?? I'm far from happy with performances on the field at times, both this and last season. Plus for that matter, the season before where we went into freefall after Christmas. Whilst I agree that Danny Bloor isn't the right person for the job and should have gone a long time ago ( from the playing side of things), it's meant to be a "joint manager arrangement" and D.B. is very much the patsy for both managers as Ian said. I have to admit to not being totally comfortable about this. A.P. has to be held equally responsible for bad decisions on the playing front, whether it be team selection, formation or signings surely? After some of the bold statements that have come out in recent times: 99% sure to get promoted, Conference football in five years etc, the fans are going to be cynical and indeed, downright angry at the position we now find ourselves in. We look around us and see the progress the likes of Lewes, Eastbourne and Horsham have made in recent years. All clubs that were behind us in the pecking order in very recent times. Football managers are happy to take the plaudits when they're successful. Equally, when they screw up, they're going to take flak. For his own good, Danny should have been relieved of team responsibilities at the end of last season. Despite all the excuses about lack of finance, that team was capable of holding it's own. As manager, Danny had to carry the can. He stayed on when A.P. returned and he's been the easy target when things have gone bad in recent months. Football fans can be an unforgiving bunch. As for the other matter of Kev...as I've said on another thread: Mr Agnew: Let him back NOW!!! Better get back to work before the IT Police here clock what site I'm on. All in the name of "research".
|
|
|
Post by themadone on Feb 27, 2008 16:41:17 GMT
Afternoon Boys , All the talk about Bloor leaving..nobody seems to have mentioned that the dug out is getting a very crowded place .... If Alan is going to sit in the stands to watch the game ,what exactly are Andy Marchant and Mick Fogden doing alongside Danny ?.
|
|
|
Post by maniac on Feb 27, 2008 16:43:51 GMT
I must say i've enjoyed the debates lately, some sensible opinions,makes good reading, but at the end of the day we all think we know the answers, but do we?
|
|
|
Post by Sam Skilton on Feb 27, 2008 16:55:06 GMT
I can understand where everyone is coming from when they say they want Pook and Bloor out, but Ian has come up with some very good points. For now, I think it could all be left alone to see if we continue winning, and if we stick with the same team, I think we can do that. If the run dosen't last then maybe this matter would continue, but from my view, it should end until we are actually doing badly.
|
|
|
Post by I sit in the stand get over it on Feb 27, 2008 18:59:57 GMT
Is this the longest single page of replies there has ever been?
|
|
|
Post by Brad on Feb 28, 2008 7:14:42 GMT
I can understand where everyone is coming from when they say they want Pook and Bloor out, but Ian has come up with some very good points. For now, I think it could all be left alone to see if we continue winning, and if we stick with the same team, I think we can do that. If the run dosen't last then maybe this matter would continue, but from my view, it should end until we are actually doing badly. I think the only way we may stop wanting the managers who have ruined our club, promised greatness then bring us sh*t for so long, will avoid anymore anti-them chanting, is if we do what they were 99.9% sure they could guarantee, a spot in Ryman Premier next season. Anything less is a failure and calls for their dismissal.....or movement up to the boardroom and put another manager who can get us to Blue Square South in the dugout.
|
|